Chris Girbés: Why Financial Growth Alone Is Never Enough

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Automatic transcript, lightly corrected for names, with profanity masked. Some passages may contain transcription errors.

Why do you think it's so difficult for our internal experience to match our external experience? I get out of school and so what what did I want to do? I wanted to make a s*** ton of money. Like how can I make money is all I I mean I swear like that's all I cared about. Why do I have imposter syndrome and like this lack of this like lack of full confidence in myself that I felt discarded by one of the two people who's supposed to love you more than anything in the world. Your parents and for that reason I needed to find ways to make myself feel that I was better than other people. That's where the judgment came. Chris Girbés is an entrepreneur and financial services professional with over decade of experience building and advising businesses. He spent and years running his own practice and working within larger firms.

Driven to create a more modern client first approach to financial advice, Chris partnered with his friend and mentor Mark to co-found Five Oceans. Outside of work he enjoys surfing, golfing and Brazilian jujitsu. Part a of the massive anxiety and fear that I have about money is because I connected money being the reason that I didn't get to have a dad. These fears aren't rational. Easy to say until your nervous system gets triggered and goes into high alarm. Well because our brains are pattern matching machines, right? So you have these patterns are printed upon you in childhood. And now our brains scan for threats. Over time how does that start to repatter? How does that start to shift your relationship with self?

There was this exercise that we did that I did with Alexis. And it was why are we the way we are with money today? Take me a little deeper into that. Where do you think that starts to form? Welcome to Money Stories where we have conversations with founders about money, meaning, and what makes a truly rich life. Today I, I'm joined by my dear friend Chris Graves, who is a an Unbreakable wealth community member but more importantly, founder of Five Ocean Advisory, where he works with founders, high net worth founders on wealth strategy and beyond, which we can get into. But I'm really excited for this conversation Chris, because you and I share such an overlap in philosophy.

We think about things a lot in the same way. And so I'm going to start the show from from a little different perspective than I normally do. Right now you're very objectively successful on paper. Your firm is growing. You're making more money than you ever have. Maybe not still feeling as successful as you might look on paper. And this is true for me as well. This is something that I help people with day in and day out. You know, wealth is what you help people with day in and day out. Why do you think it's so difficult for our internal experience to match our external experience? You know, I can share my experience and I just have to imagine it's some version of that for everybody,

which is that we have money stories. I mean, this podcast is perfect. I've been such a fan of your work because I've been into this for a long time, 10 or 15 years now. My version of it is that I had some serious or I have is the more accurate way to say it. Some serious traumas from when I was a kid and those still affect me today. I think that's a big part of it and I'm happy to get into more details. But I think everybody has some version of that. Who we are on inside is developed at an early age. And you know, just as well as anybody, it's not easy to break through those things.

Even harder is to have the breakthroughs and just remain broken through indefinitely. That doesn't happen in my experience. It's an ongoing process. So in this case, you talked about feeling not feeling as successful as maybe on paper. I'm guilty of the same human tendencies. I think a lot of people are comparison mode. I have serious fear and anxiety about money that I've done a lot of work on to figure out one that I have it and two why that still shows up. Just because my income is higher, my net worth is higher. My lifestyle looks maybe a little bit fancier. Those anxieties have not gone away. Unfortunately, I really wish they did.

But so far they haven't. I know intellectually, that my experience is not marrying the internal and external. And it's still a struggle. It's just so fascinating to spend so much time and dedicate and yet still I find myself doing things. And here's also the big difference for me. I catch it quicker and I remember the right answer and I return to presence and I remember that it's not a story.

And maybe that's the whole game. I think that's right. I think the game is to catch it to catch a sooner. Having the awareness and sometimes, you know what, I'm a big fan of having other people that can help catch it for you too. You know, having coaches or other people in your life. I think that we even though we're in a lot of ways a traditional wealth management, managing assets and advising on all the things, tax insurance, I don't have to tell you. I think that we through different processes we've implemented, we can help point out to people when they might not have the awareness themselves that they're back in that money story. And to let them live in a more intentional way. But yeah, having the awareness, being able to catch it sooner.

Again, I just don't. Think I personally had some pretty big breakthroughs about 1112 years ago now. And it's an ongoing never ending process. Like I don't think there's this word transformation. It's a tough one for me. You know, transparently, it's a tough one for me because I think you have breakthroughs a awareness, but but,

Let's kind of bring it down into some real life experience or stories. Yeah, tell me. So look, for me, when I was four years old, it was me, my next youngest brother was two and my mom was pregnant with two more boys. And the day that she came home from the hospital with my twin brothers, my dad was already gone. He left our family and he wasn't even at the birth of my twin brothers. And so my mom had four boys, four years old and younger. And I grew up, make a long story short. And by the way, like I've cried telling these stories like a lot of times. Come on. I may do that here, but I've really been psyching myself out to maybe not do that. I'll do whatever.

We'll see what happens. And to make a long story short, I associated. So I grew up without a dad. I mean, and my mom never remarried. My mom never had another boyfriend. She does now decades later, but like growing up, I just, you know, just didn't have a dad. And that sucked. And it still sucks today. And it's going to suck for the rest of my life. I have two sons now. And it's like the, it's the most important thing to me to be a great dad for them. And I'll tell you one really strange experience is to actually be envious of my own kids. Because there's some really cool dad s***, dad experiences that I'm literally never going to have bringing it back to money is I eventually came to connect that part of the massive anxiety and fear that I have about money is because I connected money being the reason that I didn't get to have a.

Now, as an adult, with more life experience, hopefully a little more wisdom, a little more perspective. Do I think money was the only reason? No, but at some point in my life, I made that connection and I haven't been able to to to unmake it. Can you just take me a little deeper into that? Sure. How did that manifest? How does, you know, growing up without a dad, where do you think that starts to form this association with money and not having a dad? When my mom brought my twin brothers home from the hospital. I remember sitting on our staircase. I was like, I was almost five now. It's one of the first memories I have.

I remember a house being like pretty empty, but my aunt had flown in from Michigan to be there to help because my dad wasn't my dad already. It's like, oh, my mom's having two more kids. Mom's on the way home from the hospital. I dunno why I remember this, but I remember like our cupboards being empty. Our fridge being empty. And I've even, I even, even at one point, like as an adult, asked my aunt about this. Just to make sure I wasn't like making s*** up in my own head. I also like really want to preface any of these stories with my mom is literally the hero of my life.

You know, she gave us everything that she could, and I don't feel like I missed out on so much s***. But having a dad was kind of a big one. Yeah. So, you know, my mom, like, we're extremely, we're extremely close. I love her to death. And she, she, she, you know, saved my life, gave me it and saved it. But basically from, from there on, I, yeah, I had, I had like four or five other like, like very clear vivid traumatic experiences that involved my dad fighting. Fighting with my mom over money.

I had to sit in a courtroom when my dad asked the judge for a paternity test, which he was basically just trying to delay the whole court system because he owed my mom so much child support, he didn't help financially. And so we were always, I remember going, driving into the ghetto, like two or three times, a young kid with my mom to chase my dad down for money. So you ask a question about like, how does it manifest with money specifically? It felt like all of it was about money. And again, now, like when I say maybe it wasn't, I, I feel like there was some mental illness going on there. My dad had a whole, my dad's an immigrant from Spain. He had his own s*** that I didn't even learn about. I traveled to Spain, I wrote a letter to my grandmother saying, I'm your, you know, American grandson wanna come, meet you and spend, spend some time.

And, and I learned some things about my dad. He had his own s*** with, you know, his' relationship with his parents. I found out it was extremely cold and whatever. Like I've learned some stuff, but five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old. That's when I linked it, you know, I think somewhere physiologically with money and the lack thereof. And I blamed all of the hardship that, you know, we went through as kids on money. So hopefully I answered your question. Yeah. No, I mean, thank you for sharing that, that insight. It's, it's clearly not easy to go back to those places. And so I just want to honor that. But if you can still maybe the belief about money or the specific money story that that left you with that those childhood experiences, could, could you do that?

I think it's that I'm deep down. I'm afraid of losing my family if I don't have money and provide. That's what I think, you know, again, I've done a lot of work. I'm not just coming up with this right now. But that's what I've, that's what I've distilled down to. Now I don't, I know, like to your point, like, I know that's not f****** true. Even recently had some, you, you know, fear and anxiety about money pop up like more, like more so than it has. And I don't know, the last several years and had some really great conversations with my wife. She had, she and the boys wrote something to me like, you know, you're an amazing dad and we love you so much.

You're doing a great job. Wrote a little note. And like that, in that moment, reading that, like just my heart exploded. And I remember that your kids don't give a f*** about money. They care about you being around and loving I needed that in that moment. And it just, it was like instantaneous. Rehealing at least for a while. Yeah, I think, I think that's, I think that's exactly how it works, right? Because you, you've pinpointed a couple important things. Number one, these fears aren't rational. Right. Easy to say. Until your nervous system gets triggered and goes into high-alarm.

You can't, you can't just be like, oh, that's not real, right? Because your felt experience, you're going back to those childhood wounds. Your nervous system is going back to those childhood wounds. There's a lot going on underneath the hood. The nervous system, man. Like it's hard to control the nervous system. Yeah. Well, because our brains are pattern matching machines, right? So you have, you have these patterns imprinted upon you in childhood. And now our brains scan for threats. Threats waiting to confirm that that pattern is activated activated again, again. That's how our brain, it's a comparison tool. Yeah. Right? And so when external circumstances present, that look like that same. and, you know, yeah, yeah, your circumstances are wildly different now. But that, that core fear still imprints and it's still real.

I'll share another one with you just really quickly. It doesn't have to be quick. I know, I know, because you and I both know other people that, you know, these stories are, you, when you see, when you see enough, it's like, there's a lot of same stories that they're, you know, they're unique. But yeah, it's all the same. Yes. But another thing that I have put together is that pertains to entrepreneurship. So one thing I knew about my dad is that he was a serial failed entrepreneur. So he was always broke. But I knew from whatever, like I'd hear from my mom or learn something from time to time about some business that he started and then failed

and then started and then failed, et cetera. The person in my family who had money who I thought was like the wealthiest person in the world was my grandfather and he he was a professor at a university. And so that whole idea that like the person that has their life together and was a good father and has a great family and is now traveling, he did the stable thing like the stable thing. Entrepreneurship has created a lot of pain and chaos and suffering in my family. And so that's another thing that's tough for me now because I'm an entrepreneur, but I'm scared s******* of like, yeah, that nervous system will still take over. Like, am I built for this?

Am I built for this? Like, does that make sense? It makes total sense. So when this starts to surface, what do you do in that moment? What do you do when you go, am I really built for this? How do you navigate that. One of the things that I've been able to do is really just turn to my family. Like my specifically my wife and my kids. Whether that's like going down and sitting next to one of them and playing with them or, you know, walking downstairs and grabbing one of them and hugging them kiss them all over the place. Like that can get me out of it pretty quickly.

Like really what I'm doing is realizing that how lucky and grateful that I am to have this thing that I always wanted. I was always dreamt about having a family. Like mine and I had it. And so remembering that in those moments is. What is what I do that? That's my go to number one tactic. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's what I'm hearing is returning to presence. Right. Because when our nervous system gets triggered, we're either living in the past or living in the future. And in that moment you're breaking that living in the past loop and just returning to what's true right now. Does that, does that feel right? It does. You just put words on, you know, that, that is practically what I do, but you just put words on what, what is, what that's what's actually happening there.

Yeah. I'm, I, I'm being going back to the present of what I have right now and then specifically even putting my hands on it. You've got a really tough childhood. Right. These money stories are hardwired, grow up without a dad. That's the first place. Can, can you kind of take me through, through your journey? Yeah. Sure. So, um, I got really f****** responsible at a, and so what I I personally turned to do now, my brothers, not, they, they didn't necessarily, we're all so different. What I did is I became a hardcore rule follower. Like I was going to, I was going to get good grades,

never get in trouble and go to college and you know, that's what my grandfather did and that was the guy like that I wanted to be like, cause he again had stability in the family and all that. And so I did that and I also turned to sports hardcore. So I played football and baseball from early on, all the a way through, I played both-sports and college like my, my whole life, just whole other thing, not, not to harp on about my, my dad's never seen me play a game of anything in my life. And, and now I get to coach, like I'm coach of my kids t-ball, like all that, all that, what can sound like really cheesy cheesy, like, dude, dude, it is like my, it's my heart man. I don't know. I, I'm living that f****** dream and it feels so good.

I gotta tell you. Um, but I turned to sports hardcore. That taught me a lot of lessons about life, discipline, overcoming hard stuff, especially football. I was under size. It, it was just, it was really good for me. Sometimes I say sports became my father in a lot of, in in a lot of ways. Um, just teaching life lessons. And then, um, I get out of school and so what, what did I want to do? I wanted to make a s*** ton of money. Like how could I make money? Is all I, I mean, I swear, like that's all I cared about too. It was bad, but I also know that's not abnormal for young men to a lot about making money. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, another thing when, when I went to, when I went to college, it was kind of the, going to college was the

first time I was surrounded with a lot of people that grew up with a lot of means. And that was really good for me because I, I was like, Oh s***, like, this is kind of nice. I like this. Um, so I get out of college though. I, uh, my first real job was at an investment banking firm. I didn't, I don't even think I knew what investment banking was. I just knew like, I heard you can make a lot of money doing it. I was just kind of all, almost all through my 20s, going through the motions of, you know, working hard, trying to work my way up in, in a career having, I would say, you know, moderate success. I was relatively speaking like, like successful. Um, um, but it was in, sorry. Let me pause you there.

Yeah. When was the first time you felt successful? The first time I felt really successful was, um, 45 years ago and I'm 45 years old. I have a successful business. Like I, it's, it's almost like a pinch me to like to even say that confidently. And at the back of my mind, it can all fall apart at any moment in all that. But, um, um, I think probably about five years yesterday. Is there a moment? You know what? I also want to, I also want to take that back a little bit. And I got a, cause for me, and this is a perfect example when you ask that question, I immediately think financially successful.

Just like that was my, that's my, that's my automatic response. Um, but I've had some other experiences where I felt like really successful in life. Let me try to answer your question about a moment financially successful. I think, look, I mean, within the last few years, I've purchased a home and a beautiful neighborhood and have provided this really, you know, nice upbringing for my kids. Um, my son goes to private school like all, all those things. Like, yeah, I feel that feels successful. I, I didn't, I didn't even know anyone that went to a private school, my, my entire life. Like, so for me, I will say all that feels like

financially successful. Now the real s*** though is sitting inside said house, uh, uh, at Christmas time, the first Christmas we were in there and we were all just like watching a movie, but like my wife and the baby and my older son and I had this moment, I looked around and I was like, oh my God, like the, the firm loving feeling just over over came my body and I just felt bliss. And like I said earlier, like it was, it was, it was just the thing that I always dreamt about and it was happening in that moment I was able to actually be present in that and that's happened to me a few times even on the baseball field coaching my son that that happened once too. So so back to investment banking, you're going through the motions.

Yeah. You're moderately successful. Like don't, don't feel successful yet, but no, moderately successful going through investment banking. Take me back to those days. What was that like? Well, again, I was, um, looking back, I know, I know I was just going through the motions. I was partying like, you know, like I was in my twenties. I was in my twenties, um, but I was working hard and, you know, really responsible at work. Eventually I knew I didn't have any passion for the type of investment banking I was doing. So I kind of had a quarter life crisis. Um, and, um, just to keep it on career for a moment, I end up at a big bank as a financial advisor. This is my first delve into the world of financial advice and wealth

management and all that. Um, and again, first few years of that, I'm kind of just going through the motions of life. Worth, I think worth worth doing in this moment is um, do you, do you mind if I just fast forward to. Send it, bro. The other stuff stuff's boring anyways, dude. I'm just like, yeah. 2013. Yeah. 2013 sounds pivotal. I'm ready. So, so, so one of my best, uh, wide receivers in college was a guy named Lewis House. A lot of people have heard of him in the social media world. Right. Um, he was my roommate, my senior year. We were like dynamic duo on the football field. He had moved to LA. He invites me up to LA to hang out. We have a great time, great weekend.

He tells me you should come do this leadership workshop that I recently did. It was awesome. I think you'd love it. Him being one of my best friends and, uh, and a successful entrepreneur. I was no brainer. Of course. When is it? I'll be there. So I went to it. Well, what it really was, was a deep dive hardcore, experiential emotional intelligence workshop. And it was, it was pretty hardcore. I mean, it was, it was nut in a lot of ways. If you went all into it, which I did, the experiences, the way that the entire program was set up, you were giving a path to go deep. And,

that workshop was the interruption. So I did. You know, because. You know, you know,

And that person and I just celebrated our 10 year wedding anniversary. Personal development is a great place to meet a partner. I happen to share a similar story. It was for me, that for sure. But I want to go back to that workshop, if we can. You go in almost totally unaware, or at least not looking at all of this stuff yet. For sure. Sort. I'd say totally unaware. That's fair. Yeah. As you start to dive in and go deep for the first time, what's that experience like? I'm like, oh man, maybe this cost me more than I thought. Maybe this is holding me back, or what was that like?

I mean, convulsive crying, like convulsing and crying and having a physiological experience. But the the. truth is that what it was like was amazing. It was freeing in a major way. It felt like nothing I'd ever felt before. I felt like the same way. So it felt having those realizations and then really being able to embrace what's possible

for me. Now having this awareness and being able to break through it felt like just pure pure love. And do you remember specifically what some of the key realizations were from that workshop? Well, yeah, I mean for me, it was why do I have imposter syndrome and like this lack of this lack of full confidence in myself? Why am I there was there was also I'm asking myself like why am I'm so judgmental. I was I was a judgmental person. My friends and family, maybe my family would have said that I don't think my friends would have because it wasn't like necessarily outwardly it was just it was on the inside. And what I what I put together was that I felt discarded by one of the two

people who's supposed to love you more than anything of the world, your parents, your parents. I felt discarded by my dad. And for that reason, I needed to find ways to make myself feel that I was better than other people. That's where the judgment came being judgmental. I felt like I was less than again, because one of one of the two people who's supposed to love you more than anybody doesn't or at least doesn't show it. It made me feel it made me feel like a like an inferior person. You know, I relate. It was there was like all this stuff that I viewed as like really good s*** like a loving family and like life experiences that people have, whether on their own or with their families. I felt like that just wasn't for me.

Like like the universe didn't have that in my deck of cards. That's what it felt like. It felt like that just that good life wasn't for someone like me. And and it was a connected that I had come to that belief system because I was, you know, because I was discarded by my dad. That's what I really connected in that in that experience. I think what's important to point out here, at least what I'm getting out of this, right, is going in, you're afraid almost to look at any of these experiences because that might make you a victim. the But then in looking at them, it was actually the opposite, right? It's empowering. You're now starting to see how these stories are holding you back.

So how does that start to? Translate into your life from there? Ooh, that's a good question. Want to put one caveat on like the I was not looking at these things because I was afraid. I think more accurately, I just I had no clue. I was just completely unaware, just like floating through life without any awareness. It wasn't like, oh, there's stuff I really need to work on. , I'll get to it at some point when I can overcome the fear. No, like I was literally clueless about it. Yeah. So just wanted to point that out now to answer your question. So what does life look like after that? I marry the girl of my dreams. I mean, the girl of my dreams that I that I in the previous Chris would have been like

not even going to bother because way out of my league. No shot wouldn't even have thought about about trying to, you know, I get my married that girl. I I had I got the confidence for the first time to start my own company. I wouldn't have done that without that shot on my arm at that time. I know I know I wouldn't have. so I moved to L. spe, get married and start a business all in like 12 month period as a result of this as a result of this, you know, new found confidence and love for myself. So like things change the way things change quite a bit pretty fast. Yes, it sounds like you, you took that experience and went right to action.

I did, I did, I did, I did and over time, how does that start to repattern? How does that start to shift your relationship with self repattern is in like when I was talking about earlier, it's not transformation one time. I mean, first few years in a marriage, Alexis and I are fighting over money, not like crazy hardcore fights that I experienced a few times. Fighting over money with my spouse is right out there with like worse nightmares, right? Like the thing I want to avoid more than anything in the world, and so I was very sensitive to that and it was look, I'm not going to accept that as part of this relationship

and we're going to do whatever we need to do to not let this be a part of our relationship. So marriage counseling and talking about and talking about money, I was at the time because I've, as I said, I've been so interested in this stuff for a long time. I was the time in a financial therapy like master certificate program because I was just interested in in a studying reading books about financial therapy, which was a pretty new field even at that time, 10, 12, 13 years ago. And there was this exercise that we did that I did with Alexis and it was the point of the exercise was to get to why do we believe, why are we the way we are with money today? And it was basically a like a life timeline, but it was it was money. It was

a timeline of best experiences associated with money and worst experiences associated with money. You go through and you put some words titles and some descriptions and we both did that and shared it with each other and it created a new level of empathy and compassion for the other person. It was like, okay, I, I understand way more now why you're reacting like this. You understand way more now why I'm reacting like the way I am. Now we can start overcoming this. So yeah, you asked how does it start reemerging? Like, I remember that just a few years later, you know, having some arguments with Alexis about money. But I refused to, like I said, we just had our 10 year right anniversary and we have not

fighting over money has not been a thing a part of our relationship, but that hasn't happened by itself or on accident. That's taken a lot of work. This is such a, a salient point. I think when it comes to relationships, right is the way I view things is there's two entities, there's you and her and you both have to work on being separate whole people. And then there's the third entity, the relationship. So you've got your own internal battle with money. She's got hers. And you just did this exercise to see where that's coming from. And now in that third entity, the relationship itself, you and her may not be completely resolved, but at least you can be resolved in relation to to each other or the best you ki. I mean, is that making sense? Is that kind of how it's

yeah, I mean, I totally agree that two people have to be happy whole people on their own before they even have any remote shot at being successful in a relationship, in my personal opinion. But yeah, I mean, doing that, the doing the work, whether it was the exercise or counseling on increasing the compassion and empathy for the other person, all that. Yeah, I mean, I think it's completely necessary. The other option is just to kind of ignore it forever. And like, that doesn't seem like a recipe for success at some point. High likelihood things will boil over, right? In my experience, yeah, that seems to be a pretty fair assessment. So, so from there, what's the path to five슷s? And what does it look like today?

Yeah, so I started to give you, I mean, and, and this really puts into perspective that shot in the arm that I, I got from doing that deep work, that emotional intelligence workshop. It was very strong because I started a wealth management practice with no clients and no assets. You shouldn't do that. That's not a great idea. The traditional path to having your own wealth management firm, start at a household name, develop a book of clients, spin out, start your own thing, take your clients with you. That's, that's the,, what I believe is and would have been the easier to do that. I was like, I can take on the world. So it was tough, but I did it just a lot of a lot of hardcore, you know, the hustling was

trying to add value for people as much as I possibly could. I was saying yes to everything and everybody. If the second someone said, I've been wanting to learn more about investing, became clients. Several of those people became best friends and clients. Several of those people were like me, although as an entrepreneur, more successful at the time, they for young, ambitious entrepreneurs. So eventually these people were now best friends, clients and wealthy. So my business, I got to kind of, I got to grow up,

you know, with them. Eventually I was sort of forced into needing to learn how to, advise the ultra high net worth. Because again, never even knew a single person that was ultra high net worth, you know, until I, I got into college and some of those, you know, friends, families or whatever. But I certainly didn't have experience with that level of the wealth. But my clients allowed me to learn. And I did, I did the, you know, 10,000 hours on the phone with CPAs and estate planning attorneys, asking a bazillion questions. And they all were happy to give me their time and answer all my questions. Because I had a bunch of clients to refer them to and refer to, refer to them. My business grew. And I first

launched that in 2015. In 2020, I came together with my now business partner and started Five Oceans. And, and our idea was, and I don't want this to be a pitch for Five Oceans. That's not the point of this interview. But my partner and I both are like, look, I knew more than anyone. Like like, I've always afraid like all this wealth management s***, but like, we knew that so much of the knowledge and the technical stuff, if not, let me just say all of it is a commodity. It really is. I mean, in 2026, 26 more, more than ever before, right? Even the most advanced strategies, these are not secret strategies that are not out there on chat GPT or that any, any advisor could figure it out. We both believe that we, we were already adding a lot of value for our clients in the life planning,

life strategy in the psychological emotional parts of those relationships. And so because we're both on the same page about that, the start of Five Oceans, we have this whole life strategy piece of our business. We have a full time life strategist on staff and, you know, like getting someone to optimize their financial plan that in and of itself, number one, isn't really that exciting to me. Like that can be done. That should be a no-brainer. Like an advisor needs to be able to do that. Like that's table stakes, helping people live more intentional, happy, fulfilled lives. That's what that's what we're in it for. I think that's what anyone wants to be doing their lives, right? So that's, that's how Five Oceans came about. This is where you and I have so much overlap, because

I think most high net-net worth, high performing founders start with the wrong question, which is, how do I optimize my finances? And I think there's a first principles question that sits underneath that, which is, optimize for what? Like, what are we actually doing here? And I think you have to get really clear about your values, the life that you actually want to build. and once you get clear on that, right? What is the life that I want to live? And more importantly, who do I want to be in that life? Now we can start answering financial optimization questions because it's a matter of allocating resources at that point. You can't do the financial thing without doing the other part first. And the human tendency is, at least if you're like you and me,

we'll spend 99% of our energy on figuring out the optimizing of the financial stuff realize that and then actually do it because you're exactly right. Why are you optimizing in the first place? Such a big question.

I'm I'm shouting from you. That's why we're, that's why we're instantaneous. Yeah, but,, but to take that step further, right.

I up actually one of the biggest, believe it or not, like one of of the biggest values. And you're not going to be going to the next place and, you know, and you're trying to figure out the next place you're going to be. And you're trying to figure out the next place you're going to travel to.

And it, it's like, let's use the resources we have to optimize our life experience. again not just to optimize building the biggest thing over time. So I mean, one of my universal rules is you can always get more money. You can never get more time. Right. , I A, A 40, 45 year old guy like us walks in your office,

answers, career relationships, fun, and health with the answers of those questions and then also why now we have a baseline of where those cracks are and now we need to

If you, if there, you said a guy comes in and there's some cracks, you know what, most of time that person is aa.

And for that, you're already aware of.

Back to that, that original example, yeah, the the right answer might be sell the the day, but it might be, hey, if I work for two more years, I can sell for two to five times more than I have right now, and then I can spend the rest of my life traveling with my family or whatever it is. So there, there are times where it makes sense to continue down the path, right? But it's that, it's that intentionality, I think that you're speaking to that really is important is what are the tradeoffs, what's name them clearly, and now we can make informed decision. Absolutely. And then another, another part of it is, you know, and you've had a lot of guests on this podcast are way wealthier than I am that have had the big exit experiences, right? So they, they can all speak to it better than I can and from a place that

that I haven't been. But I've seen and been a part of a lot of these big exit experiences, right as clients or and I'll never forget the first time. This was the first time that I was like, whoa, I did not really get it. This is year. This is several years ago now, but I was invited to a dinner and it was a bunch of really successful founders. I remember thinking like back to self worth. I was like, I do not belong on the, I am the outlier in the room. I do not belong in this room. That's what I was, you know, telling myself on the inside. But I guess that's another story. But that dinner, everybody went around talking about how they're doing and how life has been post-exit. And I know that you're surrounded with a lot of people

that you're close with that have had that experience. And every single one of them talked about going into depression after they sold. And when I say every single one, I'm talking a very one of them. And I was like, wow, I hadn't I hadn't been around a ton of people who had exited, you know, eight and nine figure businesses until that dinner was the first. The point is that that being such a common experience. I'm such a big proponent of and I really try to push people like you do all. There is a lot of work that you can do before you exit that isn't just working on the side of the business.

But you can start building those. What are you going to post exit as opposed to for most people? It's like, I just want to get this thing off my hands and my life's going to open up and that sounds logical. But but then you get there and and now you have like a lot of hard work to do because you can only travel around the world so many times before you're like, alright, sense of of accomplishment sense of purpose all those things. So again, there's all that psychological emotional work to be done preexit as well. I mean, yeah, preexit. So I mean, that's a lot. Like I get it. It's a lot. But it's so necessary. So shifting gears back to my favorite question on this podcast.

What does wealth mean to you now? The easiest easiest answer for me. It's one of my favorite stories because it's like one of them. It's just one of the most amazing feelings I've ever had in my life. , I was coaching my son and T-ball again, something I dreamt about forever. . When I first agreed to coach T-ball, I was at the coaches meeting and they're all these guys were like, oh man, coaching T-ball, I did that's like baby sitting like it's kind of like playing a game. My, son comes up to bat and I'm the coach that's setting the T on the ball on the T and getting

the kids set up every, every player. My son comes up and he just, he's, he stands there in the batter's box. It's bats down and just staring at me. I go, okay. You know, time time to hit, get ready and put the ball on the T and, he just doesn't move, but he's looking at me in my my eyes and it got awkward. And I'm like, my buddy, what's wrong, dude? Like, it's your time to hit. And, and he, dude, he looked at me and he, he took a couple of steps toward me and he goes, I I love you, daddy. And, and hugged me. And I, I was like, I felt like I was in heaven in that moment. I'm not even just saying that, like, that's what wealth feels like to me.

Sometimes I get lost in the fear and anxiety of money. And, and, and, and I can do that pretty easily because I'm human. And I'm, I'm always going to be trying to, you know, overcoming the stuff that, you know, those core wounds we talked about. But my best self remembers that that's what true wealth is for me. It's those moments. That's it. Simple, simple as that. Chris, what a, what a beautiful way to end an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for showing up, giving us all of yourself here today. If people are, where can they find you? Where can they check out what you're up to? I mean, I haven't traditionally been active on the social. Um, but I am on, on Instagram, Chris Gear Bay is just my name.

Um, the five oceans advisers.com is our website. Um, I think I'll, I'll just leave it at that really. And thank you so much for having me. Um, hopefully, hopefully I did. But in either way, I love all the work that you're doing. I love having. I could talk about this stuff all day. I just hope it's helpful for for other people. I can guarantee you that it will be that. And I appreciate you, man. Thanks for showing up. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Money Stories. And I hope this conversation sparked something for you. If you're craving more conversations like this, then I want to invite you to check out Unbreakable Wealth. It's a private community and coaching experience for founders, entrepreneurs and executives who are ready to explore money,

meaning, and what actually makes a rich life. If you're ready to rewrite your money story and lead a life on your own terms, apply now at the link below. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. See you next time.