The Rules That Got You Here Won't Get You There

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Automatic transcript, lightly corrected for names, with profanity masked. Some passages may contain transcription errors.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Inner Circle. It's my favorite 20 minutes each week, mainly because it's an excuse to catch up with my good friend, Mike Brown. These are really just our unfiltered discussions, and you get to be a fly in the wall. Today's topic is one that's near and dear to both of our hearts. It's the War of Art. And this was inspired by, if you've heard of the book, by Stephen Pressfield. He talks about the creative challenges that we, we all face as knowledge workers and it's a

December. And it just was sitting right with me and the decision to burn it all down again was so hard was so hard, like now I'm putting the finishing touches like it's coming. And it's just been flowing out of me because because I I kept fidelity to the process and refuse to ship something that was just good enough. Well, I have a bunch of questions that I want to come back to, but since you asked, yeah, I mean, I, in my heart of hearts, I think of myself as an artist. I've always been a creative type. I've always had what most others viewed as a bizarre work style, but it was really

like the last 40 years learned a couple things about, you know, how to make it work and dude, it., it's just like. Creative projects or a tortured existence, man. And it's that's the beauty of it and that's the the challenge of it. I think you're living that world right now. And but let me tell you listeners we are entering an age where all work will be creative work because AI is going to automate the basic nuts and bolts where a lot of the heavy lifting the tactical stuff what's left is I often describe it as our our role becomes like the director of in the director of a movie which.

A little harder and be done earlier. No, it's like creative work has fits in spurts and I'll happens when it happens, but at the same time you have to push. through what what what it's capitalizes it. And I wrote down the definition by the way as a prompt is like he, defunded as an invisible and

so. Which is essentially fear, self doubt, procrastination and self sabotage that arises whenever we try to pursue something important, creative or growth ordering. Does that smack you right in the face? It really rings true with me and and and I love this book because I've been I've been battling this myself and the question that I've been sitting with is like, like I had a book that I could have shipped a year and a half ago right and like why didn't I do it? And at first I was sort of going okay am I self sabotaging? Am I like am I afraid to put it out to the world? And that's sort of what Press build is

because the book wasn't doing the job that that I knew it could do and it was actually fidelity to the work of like how good I knew it could be. And and so what looks like from self sabotage on the outside was actually fidelity to the craft and going it's just not quite there. It's not the book I know it can be. And now it is I know the difference. And I am so glad that I did not ship earlier that I did not convince myself it was self sabotage and just like push through because now what's come out is exactly what it was always supposed to be. You know it's funny because the I did a stint and Silicon Valley and the ethos is ship it like get something out and I think there's a lot to be said for

for getting, something out in the world and seeing how people react and then adapting. but I think in a world again in an AI era where the cost of doing that is zero fidelity that word I like that word you mentioned it's becomes more important and putting something out there that does stand out from the crowd is super important. You know if you ask pick your favorite musician who you respect ask them when a song is done. There is no clear definition it's when they've satisfied themselves and ultimately the great thing is like that is the greatest reward of any

great project. Now do we hope Mike's book sells a million copies and makes him you know a billionaire? Yes we do. But also like the first hurdle is Mike Brown satisfied with with it is it done in Mike Brown's mind. There's sort of three types of books or writers in the nonfiction space. The first one who is someone who's writing a book is a calling card like kind of just gets their framework down on paper gets it. it out there hopes that it generates leads for the business that was not my intention writing this book and so then the second categories like look I'm trying to put great art into the world there are sort of two categories one is someone like Morgan Housel who is an amazing synthesis writer.

He's a great storyteller and synthesizes insights but it's generally other people's stories and insights and mine is in the third category which is I'm using my own lived experience to teach the insights that I'm trying to deliver and that just requires a very personal process where like I said you know you know what's good and what's not and and for me like I just it just wasn't there and it wasn't there until it was. Yeah you and I have that in common and the way I would term it is then thinking about this actually a lot lately like what is my sort of style and I derive things from first principles. I actually was thinking the other day like

I used to be a voracious reader when I was younger I actually don't read that much anymore I do a lot of thinking and processing and I do a lot of writing you know there's no net new creation right everything's a mash up of what comes before it but at the same time I'd like to I feel like I drive a lot of my stuff

I have that style but you're right like for me I tend to back into timeless philosophy through my own stubborn lived existence and yeah and running it the hard way yeah by learning it the hard way right and I'm not arrogant enough to think that that I've discovered this thing myself like and this is actually like I've had several really crazy moments of reading someone else's work or timeless work and being like oh my god like this feels like coming home it's actually I've arrived arrived at a lot of these you know two one one was Ken Wilbur the first time I read Ken Wilbur I was like wow like this guy put words to how I've been feeling I think that's what great philosophy looks like yeah and then the other was was Tibetan Buddhism like when I when I started going down the

Buddhist rabbit hole I was like wow I can't believe how much of this resonates with what I've already arrived at in my own life yeah and I think like I love that too when I discover an idea it's almost like affirming in a way but it causes me to also think like what's my contribution here I think often for me my contribution is like I'm a both I'm a big thinker but I'm also very much a pragmatist and what I try to deliver to the world is like practical pragmatic ways to apply this stuff and if if there's any like little niche I have, I think that's it and you know it resonates with some some portion of the audience because you know there's ultimately like I'm an engineer mindset and there's like at some point I get

frustrated with pie in the sky thinking and I like to say okay what does this mean for like what do I do tomorrow you know what I mean so I have a question for you but but I'm gonna give you I'm gonna tell you the question I'm gonna give you some time by by telling our audience a couple things the question is through this process and I would focus like more recently on trying to finish this book the question is like what if you how is your process changed or what have you learned any, new insights about how to approach creative creative work but while you're thinking you know I wrote down I was like like to prepare a little bit for these episodes I wrote down a couple things that I think are relevant here so I think you know even though you, even though we talk a lot about how you can't force creativity

I think you know there's a lot to be said for just getting started right and that's that's the huge that's the big barrier for a lot of people there's a great quote from Stephen King he said amateurs sit and wait for inspiration the rest of us just get up and go to work so there's there's a lot to be said for like not waiting forever for it there's a time to seek inspiration then there's a time to just freaking pull out the laptop and get started and I'm reminded of I watched an interview with Seinfeld one time and you know nobody would argue he's a master of his craft like he's one of the very best and I was shocked at his process he basically says like look I'm like a nine to five office guy like I go to the office I write a bunch of jokes some of them are good some of them are bad and then I go to the clubs and I practice them

it's not that glamorous it's like pretty basic and I was like you know what that's just like the way anything works like even when you're not inspired like just putting in the reps there's something to be said for that and then you know have the discernment which you're going through right now to say well yeah I got this done but it's not my best and so there's a role for that but I'm gonna set it aside and strive for the best so all that said what to answer my question like what what have

you done with my voice and and I did it and actually AI has been incredibly helpful like you should definitely never use AI to actually write but but AI as a thinking partner and an editor and and to sharpen insights I learned much about a how my own mind works logically and the steps that I go through I was actually able to map them out and then how I translate that to the page and and when I started analyzing my favorite pieces and my favorite chapters and what was really working I was actually able to sort of processize that and go okay now I know what writing at my best looks like it actually becomes... I freaking love that but the line of this this episode is

I became a writer and and the reason that's important is because that's the real win from the whole thing like and I don't mean to minimize your forthcoming book but in a in a way it makes the book irrelevant you know because you whatever comes after is only going to be bigger and bigger and bigger and yes we hope the book does again does really well it reminds me of this one of my favorite stories there's a guy named John Carmack who's a very famous computer programmer game developer because he wrote Doom he was like single-handedly wrote Doom literally and he's a legend and I read his autobiography and he talked about how by the time he would finish a version of Doom he couldn't even stand to look at the code anymore

because he had learned so much from the process so it was like painful for him to even release a version of Doom because he hated it so much but the real value there of course was he learned so much they're they're they're a dopamine rush when they hit but it's rarely I very lasting

the creative process has been a much more lasting sustainable win from that like you're right like I carry this now with me this process with me for the rest of my life and it just it just feels different than my first exit or you know some of the other athletic achievements even that I've done because there was there was a forge process right like I had to become a writer like you know in a different way than like becoming an athlete like if you just if you put in linear work like you will eventually be an athlete but there's there was a earned the voice was earned is I think what is what I'm trying to say I think that's actually probably the point we should wrap up with is number one I would say that the very best

in any pursuit treat it as a craft I don't care if you're you're like a traditional artist in whatever if you're a business person if you're an athlete whatever and you know simple example for my life is like I always say there's a difference between people who rock climb and rock climbers I like to think I'm a rock climber because I treat it as a craft it's a lifelong pursuit and then the second piece which you just said is ultimately the most fulfilling thing you'll get out of your work your life's work whatever is the mastery of the craft not the the products it produces I couldn't agree more and you're right you know the the reality is that I'm I'm proud of this book and of course, I want it to sell copies because I'm human and that's why I wrote it in the first place but if it

never sells a single copy like it's it's for me and and becoming a writer in the process like made it all worth it and and this is the thing like like here's what I would leave the listeners with like if you have a creative project inside of you don't die with that still inside of you like everyone deserves to feel what it's like to to birth something like this for the world and so to Kevin's point like just get started yep love it brother this is really fun fun topic yeah 100 man always good all right we'll see you guys next time thanks for tuning in