We're Back! Kevin and Mike Life Updates Part 1 & 2

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Automatic transcript, lightly corrected for names, with profanity masked. Some passages may contain transcription errors.

Hey everybody welcome to The Inner Circle I'm Mike Brown joined with Kevin here as always we've been absent for a little while and we're back and we've been absent for good reason and We both have some pretty major life updates that we will get into one My book ship for pre-orders or is is open for pre-orders about to ship and Kevin took on a new a new role in his life. So we're gonna dive into both of those things First of all Kevin, I think I think where we start with this conversation is The rules you and I both are notorious rule breakers and for any podcast You're supposed to release and every single week because that's how you compound consistency

We chose not to do that. How do you think about that? Well, I mean if you think back to the the original idea that you and I had for this podcast was we I mean what we're recording right now is The interactions we have anyway and in fact we haven't had them for a while and I've missed it you know because I love catching up with you I get so much out of these and so The the we had no rules as you know from the beginning here, because really this this podcast is Just hitting the record button on conversations. We're having anyway and I think you know I was telling you before we hit the record button today that, that one of your sayings that

I've adopted and stolen is you know I reserve to write to be a different person 10 minutes from now that I am today like you know everything is temporary and You know, we reserve the right to change the rules in any time and we do this podcast because we genuinely enjoy doing it But when life intervenes and it doesn't it's not convenient or we don't feel like doing it We won't do it and that's the greatest part about it is we're not Beholding to it. We we we're doing this I think from a from a place of purity, which is awesome Yeah, I mean the minute it starts feeling like work. That's a red flag for me right and I take the same approach to social media and my newsletter and You know everything that I do is I love this too much to make it a job. Yeah, and

and so Yeah, we took a month off because I was Winging together building an airplane while I was flying for for a book a book launch. Yeah Well,, let's let's get, get into it because I got a bunch of questions I want to ask you because We actually haven't caught up really since you're only we've talked a little bit We saw each other at the baby bathwater event briefly. I attended your talk So, I mean, why don't you start by just like what's going on like bring bring me up to speed on You know, you were, furiously heads down. I didn't hear much from you for a while you You launched the book. I Saw your talk. So talk about all that stuff, man. What's been going on?

Yeah, so, I am sure some of our dozens of listeners At some point Have thought like I've been talking about this book a long time like what is this thing actually going to be real and you know This is the the manuscript that is live now is my fourth version of the manuscript and You know, I shipped a 72,000 word draft to my editor in December And got her comments back and they were all very positive comments, but I just thought like man This is not the book that it that, it wants to be it's not the book. It's good, but it's it's just not not yet and In December in February the the subtitle how to want everything you have came to me sort of in a dream

And I was like that's it that's the spine of the book That's what this book wants to be and so I cut 30,000 words immediately I ended up cutting another 30,000 words and almost did it a full rewrite. I bet only 15% of that manuscript From from December remains and what the book is now and man, I am I am so glad I did it is It's I'm proud of it. It's it's Resonating with the people who have read it so far I've been getting amazing comments from the from the few copies that I pre-ordered and and and gave, too advanced readers and The process What I would say is the biggest lesson in this is that I talk a lot in a book

And I have talked a lot publicly on social media and on this podcast about external validation and and you know The the goalposts that we set for ourselves being empty You know standing on the top of the mountain and realizing that the view up there is empty and holy s*** I'm,m still the same person as I was the book Has really had the opposite effect. It's it feels It feels like I thought the business exit would feel like it feels like what I thought the money would feel like because You know, I I know what it cost me to write it I know the thousands of hours I poured into this manuscript and You know, I thought I was working on the book, but the reality is the book was working on me. Hmm. Yeah

That reminds me of something, you know, I've always felt which is that Almost all the benefits of writing go to the author not the reader and people think it's for the reader But it's actually for the author and one thing I'll say because I got to observe you through this process is you approach this book as as art and as a craft and In an era when let's face it, you know, most books these days are Written like to monetize an audience basically like especially in like the social media world And especially with like within the world of X where we kind of that we kind of inhabit You know a lot of these guys I think they're they're good intentions But the book is written to basically be like here's my my shtick in book form

And one thing that really I was made me happy for you was when I saw Our friend Paul Millard posted essentially like a two-part review of your book and Paul's someone like he's the real deal Like we respect him because that dude if anybody lives What they say it's him to the extreme And he basically said the same of you is like this is a book that was you can tell the craftsmanship that went into it You can tell the through line it's different And so I get chills thinking about that on your behalf because what high praise And that's that's what you look like you and I talked about this briefly is like Getting a review like that from someone you respect

It's like that's it. That's all we need Yeah, totally and um, you know for tax like I don't know Paul well I just met him on twitter and we have interacted on each other's posts a few times but What what really was cool about about seeing his post and seeing his review is That was not expected I I set him a copy because I was like, hey man. I like path was path a lot I think yeah, you might dig this book And he read it and then posted that and and yeah, it feels really great to start having people With no dog in the fight, you know, right my friends. Tell me it's really good. That's cool. That's what your friends are supposed to Right, right Well, and it's someone who you know is not going to b******* like you know

and um You're right like, you know getting feedback from your friends is a little different because they always want to be sensitive to your Uh relationship and to be honest like I have a a copy sitting back there I've read a couple chapters, but I've been slow to dig in there we go I've been slow to dig in because like I thought I knew mike schtick like if anybody would know mike schtick It should be me because we've spent a lot of time talking about it Seeing paul's review was like, oh This is different than I thought it's actually not all the stuff I know. So Um, yeah, I'm gonna I can't wait to dig in and read the whole thing word for word myself Yeah, I I appreciate that and it's uh It has been a surreal process

You know launching Uh, I I sent a newsletter and and posted on x you know, I actually wasn't ready to launch the book I was I was making line edits, you know up until the the hour It had to ship to the deadline to get advanced copies for my talk in boulder um, and I it's it's so cool to So I launched on Kickstarter on aug 18th so a couple weeks ago now and uh Look, there's there's a little gamesmanship and the whole Kickstarter idea I set my goal at 20k. I was pretty sure I could do 20k

So rewarding to um to see You know, obviously All of my close friends and and family like everybody's been wildly supportive, but to just see like Oh, man, like I I didn't expect the the response that it that it's gotten and um I can't wait to, see what happens. I really didn't like a lot of people have asked like What do you want out of this or what are you hoping to get out of? And and we can talk about that but It actually feels like it has a life. It's starting to take on life of its own and and that's kind of what I want it That's that's awesome. Um Well, I want to ask you some specific questions And some of this is selfish because as you know, like I've been contemplating writing a book for a while

And I'll I'll be honest like watching you go through this process scared me a little bit Because it's like that's probably what it takes to write something that you're proud of But so you mentioned earlier You know, uh, you were you thought you were working on a book but the book was working on you like How do you how are how is mike brown different on the other end of this? Uh, this process Great question. Yeah, I mean One I think it is important to say that um I didn't want this to be a business calling card like this is not a funnel Like my intention for this book was for 20 bucks. I can hand somebody Everything I've learned over the last decade and they can take it and run with it And never need to sign up for coaching or come to more of my retreats like this this should stand alone

as as sort of an artifact of You know, the lessons I've learned the hard way uh over the years and and that does I think require a different commitment and um In in many ways, uh, you know, I I suffered in this process I, I suffered with the weight of the the aspiration of like I think I can write a really good book and um And in pushing myself and and holding that standard of of Rewriting and burning down and rewriting. Um, and and I'll and I'll give you one anecdote which is um Chapter seven, which is one of my favorites, uh You know very close to the deadline

Had a story in the intro that I thought was just okay and Uh, I was sort of feeling this itch of like, hmm. I'm not sure if this is quite right And I was sort of racking my brain of like, what's a better story to tell here And and then it just came to me and I was like, oh no, not that like I don't want to write about that and I ended up writing about my divorce And that was never supposed to be a part of the plan But it just it just landed on my heart that like this is this is the story that I that i'm called to share here And it ended up being one of my favorite passages in the book and And it was hard to write, I mean it it it was yeah, uh emotional. It was revisiting. Um, you know some of the pain that

um You know fortunately, don't revisit that often anymore. Uh, but it required kind of opening that that that that chest Of like man, do I really, really want to go back into this and and feel this all over again? And i'm so glad I did because like that's the standard. That's the book that I wanted to write Yeah, and what you're talking about is vulnerability And it's always uncomfortable But you know what I Found is the more personal the more universal like that, story in particular is obviously relatable for a whole Uh, a lot of people and I think you know, you and I have always said and I don't think we say this with arrogance, but like our competitive advantage our secret Uh weapon whatever is just lived experience. I mean you and I

You're 45 46 I'm 45. Yeah, okay. You you're 45 i'm 55 We've both gone hard our whole lives and we've learned a lot. We've done a lot And that's what we have to share. Like I always tell people and this even relates to like if you're thinking about writing on on x or something Uh, you don't know what to write about, you know There's one topic you're the world's foremost expert on and that's your own life Right and if it turns out like you and I you've done a lot of stuff That's probably worth sharing and I think that's you know You weaving those stories into your book it's like it's one thing to like talk about the principle or the framework or the idea It's another to say like here's how I lived this

Uh, to me, that's you know, the more personal the more universal like like those details matter Yeah, and and and you know the balance in writing is I I did not want to write a memoir, uh, and and To to borrow again from paul. He calls it memoir ish nonfiction You know, I only share enough of my story to To show not tell right like show the reader how how I came about these lessons um contained in the pages and It just makes it credible right like like this is this is not theory. This is this is applied Uh principles battle tested and and hard won right they they cost me something to learn and um

You sharing them in that way yes is I mean, it's harder than I thought well And I and I act here I mean because you know, I've talked about this a lot offline and that's the issue You and I have with a lot of these Younger guys who have big followings on x or whatever because they're really good at engagement And a lot of these guys write a book. But they just don't have a lot of they're not speaking from a position of experience and having done it, right? So of course, it's one thing to have to give advice that sounds good. It's a completely different thing to have actually lived it and seen both sides of it and, you know, struggled and suffered, like you said, you did with this book. So, yeah, I think that's,

that's automatically what makes your book super powerful. Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's right. And there's and there is it's horses for courses, right? It depends on where you are in the path. And, and, you know, the wave tops sort of advice, I think meets a lot of people where they are and those books can be really popular. And, you know, this is sort of almost a different genre is like, hey, look, this is this is that lived experience. And I reserve the right to be wrong. Like this is this is a snapshot in time. This is what I believe right now. And I'm sure I'll publish another one in a couple years. And it might be completely 180 out. I might I might debunk all of my own principles, right? But that's the cool part is, like, I'm willing to be wrong,

like I'm not staking everything on these are the right answers. These are the right answers for me at this time based on the sum of my experiences. And I reserve the right to update them at any time. Awesome. All right, next question. So, and I've told you this before, I think, but a long time ago, I read a book about John Carmack, who is the the legendary video game programmer who wrote the the game doom and a few few others. After that, he built the first real time 3d rendering engine for video games, brilliant, like genius level guy. And something that really the one thing that stood out for me from that book is he talked about how he would write a.

A version of doom, and he would get to the end of it. And he would be so disgusted with what he had created, even though it was amazing breakthrough technology. He was so disgusted with exactly the way, the way it should be built. And of course that process is repeats over and never end. So I've always wondered about this myself

and the unfulding that's taken place of these seemingly unrelated things just snapping into place. Once I, you know, wrote the final sentence and shipped it, has just been, it's been staggering. And what that's really loud is this deep and trust of like, it's all going to work out. And there's nothing we can do, to not make it work out. And there's nothing we can do to make it work out. It's just going to work out. Well, I was, as you know, I was at your talk and it was awesome. And there was a lot of people

with

Andy Schoonover on X. I've sort of started as. As a mutual respect thing. Hey, I love what you're doing. You know, because I think I mentioned it to you, like, a year. There's this really cool company. I'm talking to them and I had no preconceived notion about where it would lead. But I concluded for myself and I told Andy, the CEO of Crowd Health, I said, I think this is going to be a multi-billion dollar company. It seems inevitable to me that this is going to be a multi-billion dollar company. And by the way, I think I can help you build that multi-b-billion-dollar company. And so I got pretty excited about it. Initially started working as an advisor to the company. And, you know, as you sort of slowly grew and now, like I said,

I've got something that probably more closely resembles a job than anything I've had for a while. And I'm super excited because, you know, the bar is high for me. Back to this idea like when you have a great life, don't screw it up. So the bar is super high. Like if I'm going to put my time into something, there has to be, I mean, let's be honest, there has to be the financial upside. But even that's not enough. I have to really vibe with the people and the culture. And so far, it's like sort of checked all of those boxes. And so yeah, my belief is no matter how rich you are, humans need work. Like we we the hook. We need a little bit of uncertainty in our life.

And we need things that you would call work. I've always had it. I'm ramping it up here quite a bit. But I'm a big big believer that humans, we need to be

I don't know. I think it's..,

our head that keeps us in the insurance system. That's really part of what crowd health is for. So it's a it's that back stop and, you know, there's the crowd health community of people facing very serious and it's covered by the crowd. And so anyway, I mean industry that is just broken,

I because everybody has has to, you have to, you know, yeah, you got to play the game to get ahead and then you earn over time, the privilege of not having to fake it anymore. Thank God.

Oh, f***. I've got a calendar full of meetings and none of them I want to attend. We all know what. that feels like we don't know what both of those things feel like and unfortunately, I think most people don't get to experience the the former enough like the spring out of bed can't wait to get to work type thing. so some of it is for me

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, , I, I, so-, I, I., I, I don't know.

, I. Yeah, that was my highest purpose. And in the process of becoming a writer through writing book, I am really starting to feel that that maybe my highest calling is being a writer. . If I had been so doubled down on, well, I found my purpose. I've got to protect this at all cost.

Great example. The opportunity to shift and go, actually, maybe this isn't my highest calling. Maybe this is part of that purpose. But actually, there's a higher purpose even within that. Chills, dude. And to put it in really simple terms, Mike Brown didn't have to write to write a book. You had a great life. You would have it. You would still have a great life if you had chosen not to write the book. I didn't have to take on a new challenging role where I've got, you know, I'm under pressure. I've got skin in the game. But I choose to do that because you know, that's growth. And we're doing it in pursuit of greatness, like of having, you know, what's the next thing? Because even a incredible day-to-day life can, you know, as you said,

you can slip into complacency. Yeah. And if you're closed off, if you decided, the minute you decide I'm optimized and I'm not changing anything, you're immediately closed off to even better. Right. And that, that's a question that I ask myself all the time. And I know you do too. Yeah, this feels really great. But what's even better than this? That's funny. While you were saying that, I was thinking like, it's almost a bit of a red flag when you say like, I'm optimized, because that's the, you become sort of complacent. And that's the, that's probably your sign that you need to throw a bomb into your life. Yeah. I love it. Well, two big bombs in this episode. And man, great to be back on the, on

the mic with you and in rapping and doing what we do best. More episodes to come people. Yeah, we're, we're back in a big way and more episodes coming to you very soon. But thanks for joining us as always by the book. Join crowd health. Both of them will make your life better and we will see you guys next time.